The Feds' Ramsey Electronics Raid Blow by Blow
Electronic Hobby Kits Illegal
In November 2000, Ramsey Electronics was raided by 7 armed federal agents, and 3 state troopers, and has been prohibited from selling certain wireless transmitter kits. The government alleges these commonly available wireless kits were intended for illegal wiretapping and international espionage. "Hacker" groups allege the order to remove previously legal wireless technology kits came from the White House, chagrined after the Linda Tripp wiretapping incident.
Company
President John Ramsey offered this play-by-play
of that morning's events:
They had already been here almost an hour when I walked in. I [had
been]
at the bank. When I came back in, I saw my controller, Ed
VanVoorhis and
his face was white as a ghost. There were these two guys wearing
suits
standing on each side of him. He told me that these guys were
from the
government and they were here with a search warrant. Then the
agents
took over; they pretty much bullied me down the hallway and into
my office.
I went to go sit at my desk, and they said 'No. you sit over
here,' pointing to
a couch in my office. The two of them proceeded to rattle off a
lot of
mumble jumble like Title 18 USC Section 2512 and other numbers,
flashing
badges and being surrealistically intimidating. I'm looking at my
accountant. I have never seem him like this. The [agents] are
verbally
batting me back and forth, and I'm like, 'Hey, what's going on?'
They
proceeded to tell me that they were executing a search warrant to
find
goods that were in violation of section 2512, and they shove this
four or
five page search warrant in my face.
They said that they were here to find stuff that violated section
2512 and I
said, 'Like our wireless FM mic kits?' The one [agent] gave me
his card,
and I noticed that he was from Buffalo, an hour and a half away.
I said,
'you two guys came all the way here from Buffalo?' and he said,
'No.
There's seven of us.' Then he said, 'If you don't cooperate with
us, we'll shut
you down. We'll lock the doors, send all the employees home,
we'll go
through all of your inventory, records, customer lists and
computers. We'll
go through your computers bit-by-bit. We have experts that do
that, and we
don't care if it takes months.' I was escorted out to the
production and
shipping areas, which they had pretty much commandeered. All the
doors
had 8 1/2 x 11 pieces of paper taped on them with a large
handwritten
letter on them - like A, B and C. There was a fellow wearing a
photographers vest snapping pictures everywhere; we later counted
5
empty film cans in the trash!
About five hours after they arrived, they staged all of the
official US
government boxes near the back loading dock. They took a huge van
and
backed it up to my loading dock, and proceeded to load it with my
goods. I
walked over to the boxes to verify what they were taking;
obviously, they
would want me to confirm their counts and amounts. I was stunned!
They
wouldn't let me see what was in the boxes! I have no idea what
they took. I
went over to look in them, and they told me to get away. They
told me they'd
give me an inventory sheet. I said, 'That's my stuff and I should
be able to
check it.' Special Agent Craig Healy turned to me and said 'You
can trust
us.'"
After they had finished loading the van, they presented me with
the
inventory sheet, a simple handwritten sheet with no names, titles
or
signatures. There's nothing indicating who it was from on it. I
looked at one
of the sheets quickly and noticed the very first part number
wasn't one of
ours and the second item number listed was for a kit that had no
function
or bearing on their search warrant. They agreed to fish those two
items out
of the van and sure enough, neither item was correct. One of them
said
words to the effect of, 'gee, we must have picked up the wrong
box from
your shelf.' They corrected their mistakes, asked for a
recommendation for
a good local restaurant and were on their way...
After they left, employees told me that they surrounded the
building,
watching all the entrances while they entered along with a New
York state
trooper for back-up. This show of force, while maybe necessary
for raiding
an underground drug lab, was hardly necessary. Our building is
located in
a typical suburban office park and our showroom is open to all.
What's incredible is that two of the agents were here a week
earlier,
pretending to be customers! This 'recon' obviously would have
shown them
that no force would be needed, let alone seven agents on a three
hour
travel time round trip. What's especially aggravating was that
during the
earlier visit they tried to lead one of my technical people into
saying
something they wanted to hear. Questions were posed like 'if we
placed one
of these little kits across the street in that building - for
instance - could we
hear it over here?' Our technician assured them that although the
units
work great for model rockets, toy cars and such, they really
weren't suited
for transmitting out of a building. Steel construction,
reinforcing rod and
the like limits range. They then asked if they could boost the
power to do
the job. Our fellow once again reiterated that the kits were
hobby stuff and
that what they wanted couldn't be found here. After the raid, my
technician
told me that they were here last week, playing 'customer' and how
they had
left unsatisfied.
So, where do we sit now? I have a Federal Small Business
Innovation Grant
underway that uses our little FM-5 wireless mike to transmit
muscle sensor
data to a nearby computer system. The doctors who are partners in
the
grant specified the FM-5 due to its small size; present
technology uses a six
pound transmitter that straps to the back of a child. Tough to do
on a forty
pound kid. The research is on walking disorders on crippled kids.
Now
what? Shall we violate their interpretation of the law and work
with the
doctors and the SBIR people? How about all the schools, scout
troops and
hobbyists who use our kits? We're not talking big money here. The
kits
amount to a small portion of our business, but what will these
folks do
now?
I have personally received mail from many who say that they are
now
graduate engineers as a direct result of one of our little kits
sparking their
interest in electronics. I guess the mobsters, terrorists and
kidnappers don't
feel the need to write, huh?
Comments from Newsgroups
Subject: Re: FEDS
RAID ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 20:22:55
-0500
From: "Joe Schlatter"
<w4hh@3wave.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
David:
Thank you for posting the alert as to what happened to Ramsey Electronics.
I am a retired Army colonel and
my politics are somewhat to the left; I am a
yellow-dog Democrat and
voted for Bill Clinton twice. I favor serious gun
control. BUT, this is
beyond good sense. I now think that the guys who are
telling me that I should be
afraid of my own government may have a point.
I recommend that folks go to
this URL and read a description of what
happened:
Here is the problem: This
has set a precedent. Yes, terrorists or other
evil doers could use Ramsey
kits to do bad things. But, the vast majority
of folks buying those kits
are electronic hobbyists who do nothing more than
eavesdrop on their big
sister and her boyfriend. The cops should be
concentrating on catching
lawbreakers who have broken the law, not sweeping
up every possible item that
could, maybe, possibly be used by a criminal.
Case in point: I have an
acquaintance who is an Alabama state police commo
tech. He told me once
that they are forever seizing 2-meter handhelds that
crooks are modifying to
transmit outside the ham bands and using for short
range commo. How
about we just swoop down on AES and HRO and seize all
their handhelds -- after
all, don't want any criminals buying one. The same
goes for HF rigs. I
spent 25 years in intelligence work and I can tell you
that international
terrorists and drug runners use amateur gear for
long-haul commo.
Let's just shut down Ten-Tec, ICOM, Kenwood, Yaesu,
Collins, the whole works.
Think it can't happen? Think it
will not happen? What would you have said
ten years ago if I had told
you that the feds would sue the cigarette
companies and win a multi-billion
dollar settlement?
This weekend I will compose a
letter to my Congressional delegation, citing
this outrage, and asking
that they get a rope around Janet Reno and her
associates. I will
post that letter to this NG and anyone who wishes may
use my letter as a model
for writing their own.
--
Regards,
Joe Schlatter
joe@schlatter.org
http://www.schlatter.org/
http://www.miafacts.org/
Amateur Radio Extra Class
call sign W4HH
Subject: Re: FEDS
RAID ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:26:46
-0500
From: "Joe
Schlatter" <w4hh@3wave.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
Thank you for posting the
Ramsey e-mail. I am suspicious of claims about
"armed federal agents"
but this is outrageous. I don't know what can be
done but I intend to write
my Congressional reps and senators today.
I certainly understand the
concern about electronic devices being used for
something other than their
intended purpose. Hell, a ham friend of mine a
commo chief for Alabama
state police and they confiscate Icom, Kenwood,
Alinco, Yaesu handhelds
from drug runners all the time. Guess folks who
sell handhelds are next??
It is obvious that the Dept of
Justice does not understand that the bad guys
will get this stuff anyway
and that they need to concentrate on the bad
guys, not on people selling
honest stuff honestly.
--
Regards,
Joe Schlatter
joe@schlatter.org
http://www.schlatter.org/
http://www.miafacts.org/
Amateur Radio Extra Class
call sign W4HH
Subject: Re: FEDS
RAID ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 21:32:36
-0500
From: "David Little"
<dalite01@sprynet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
Joe,
The armed and dangerous bit is
getting far too commonplace. This isn't the
first such case in point.
This has bveen going on unreported for somtime
now....
A good story (non-fiction) is
Bruce Sterling's "Hacker Crackdown". EFF
should have the online
version available for download.
Subject: Re: FEDS
RAID ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:49:46
-0600
From: David Stinson <arc5@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
The idea of selling electronic
kits of any type-
with a very few exceptions
not included here-
being illegal falls under
the concept of "prior restraint,"
which has been forbidden
all the way to the Supreme Court.
The actual misuse of the
items is illegal- not owning them.
Unfortunately, it appears
the feds are more concerned with
political expedience then
actual justice.
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 05:35:09
GMT
From: "Gary - KJ6Q"
<davison7@spamlessgte.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
IF you would just substitute
"gun" in every applicable place where
"radio" or "kits"
is used below, you MIGHT understand us pro-gunners a
bit better as well - there
are more parallels than you might feel
comfortable with as an
admitted leftie...
--
Gary - KJ6Q
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: 31 Dec 1999 14:28:31
GMT
From: rfenforcer@aol.com (RFEnforcer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
"Due process?"
What a joke! There is no "due process" when the
heavy hand of
the government with it's
unlimited financial resources swoops down on a small
business, then forces the
business owner to incur huge legal fees for his
defense. Even if
ultimately found innocent, the business is usually ruined in
the process.
Note: this address does not
accept unsolicited e-mail. Please contain all
discussion regarding USENET
posts to the appropriate newsgroup thread.
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:10:23
-0800
From: "dgcochran"
<dgcochran@email.msn.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
Hello, In my opinion this is
really bad. I wonder if they will go after
radio shack? I'm sure the
Shack's lawyers would have a lot more to say than
picking on a smaller
company like Ramsey. I guess we're getting to the
point that thinking of a
crime will be just as illegal as doing it. I think
that almos anything can be
used illegally. The fed's actions smack of big
brother tactics that should
not be tolerated.
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: 31 Dec 1999 17:07:03
GMT
From: rfenforcer@aol.com (RFEnforcer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
In article <386CCA8C.4260@no.net>, JJ <jj@no.net> writes:
>The same analogy can be
said for guns. Look at how many guns are used
>illegally, but you
don't see the feds rushing in to all the gun shops to
>shut them down.
Already happening.
Several municipalities have already filed lawsuits against
the gun manufacturers with
more localities to follow. The goal here is to
obtain huge damage awards,
thus forcing said manufacturers out of business.
Note: this address does not
accept unsolicited e-mail. Please contain all
discussion regarding USENET
posts to the appropriate newsgroup thread.
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:45:31
GMT
From: "Gary - KJ6Q"
<davison7@gte.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.amateur.misc
The GREAT flaw in your logic is
the ASSUMPTION of later "due process",
or that the court process
is somehow isolated from *law enforcement* -
hasn't it YET occured to
you that events LEADING to the reported
incidents are a PART of our
"due process" that are set forth and
permitted by our current
legal system?
Or do you REALLY think those
two institutions operate entirely
independently from each
other? Who do you think gives the search
warrants - or wiretap
permissions? Here's a clue - IT'S THE JUDGES!
The SAME judges who will next render the "due process you speak of..."
Gary - KJ6Q
--
Jeffrey Herman
<jeffreyh@Hawaii.Edu> wrote in message
news:84hfho$ngb$1@news.hawaii.edu...
> You folks sound like a
lynch mob. Let due-process sort things out.
> Everything that's been
produced so far has been extremely one-sided.
>
> 73, Jeff KH6O/6
Subject:
Re: FEDS RAID ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS - NEW WORLD ORDER AT WORK!
Date:
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:34:09 GMT
From:
Kevin Alfred Strom <kevin.strom@innocent.com>
Newsgroups:
rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.shortwave
It is quite odd, this mentality
that it's a terrible thing for
ordinary folks to possess
miniature cameras, handguns, little FM
transmitters, and
communications scanners -- but that it's perfectly
alright for the secret
police to possess such things, and 10,000
times more, and use them
against us.
With every good wish,
--
Kevin Alfred Strom.
News, links, and pictures: http://www.kevin-strom.com
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS - NEW WORLD ORDER AT WORK!
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 03:54:35
GMT
From: "Lake"
<nospam@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,
rec.radio.shortwave
Ramsey electronics was raided.
They sell a bunch of little electronic kits.
Even Radio Shack sells
little FM transmitter kits.
A nice example of our tax
dollars going to waste. These kits are NOT illegal
to buy or own, It's only
illegal if used in the wrong way.
As a matter of fact it was
little kits like these that got me and probably
many others involved
with radio.
Subject: Re: FEDS RAID
ELECTRONIC HOBBY VENDORS - NEW WORLD ORDER AT WORK!
Date: 31 Dec 1999 14:28:32
GMT
From: rfenforcer@aol.com (RFEnforcer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
In article <%NVa4.4542$9e3.227172@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"Lake"
<nospam@nospam.com>
writes:
>A nice example of our tax
dollars going to waste. These kits are NOT illegal
>to buy or own, It's
only illegal if used in the wrong way.
Next on the list: 10-meter
amateur transceivers (they "could" be modified and
used illegally on 11m),
handguns (they "could" be used illegally by criminals),
and lawn fertilizer (it
"could" be used illegally to make bombs.)
Remember, folks, this is the
same government that was just caught red-handed
lying to it's citizens
about it's actions at the Branch Davidian compound in
1993. Do you still
feel so safe in "the land of the free?"
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